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A guide to finding a Regiment on a large War Memorial

On many of the large memorials there is an order in which the names and Regiments are listed – I din’t know either until a fellow member of the NVA (Normandy Veterans Assoc.) passed on the information.

Take for example you have a relative on the Thiepval Memorial – he is one of over 72,000 other casualties who were KIA and their final resting place is not known, being only remembered on a memorial far from home.

Edmund Hilton Dadd, M.C., Capt, Royal Welsh Fusiliers  died 1916;  Edward Davy Pain, Capt., Somerset Light Infantry and Edward Aubrey Jackson, Rifleman, KRRC.  Which Regiment is listed first, do you know ?

Firstly, you need to understand that the Command Staff are always first, mostly General, Colonels etc., then the regiments, the regiments that traditionally guarded the King, so we have the Life Guards.   Followed by the Dragoon, Hussars and Lancers, then the Royal Horse and Field Artillery, the Guards in their various forms.  With the other regiments following on, again in a strict order.

Back to our young men who are on the Thiepval Memorial – ~The Somersetshire LI (Prince Albert’s) Regt., is first being 13th after the Guards and Household Regiments who are not numbered.  The Royal Welsh Fusiliers are 23rd on the list and the King’s Royal Rifle Corps., are following on in 60th position.

It dosn’t work out that if your regiment had a regal connection i.e. King’s, Prince or Princess in their name.  Putting it simply, as I like to do most of the time, the more traditionally connected to looking after the monarch the higher up the list you are.

Saying that, it is still confusing and sometimes you are best looking straight at a list of the regiments.  The Corps of Royal Engineers is listed after the Royal Horse and Field Artillery, but before the Grenadier Guards, Scots, Irish and Welsh Guards.  The listings don’t work on how new the regiments were i.e. the Welsh Guards were only formed in 1915.  The Guards Machine Gun Regiment raised in 1917 is listed after the Welsh Guards but the Machien Gun Corps raised in 1916 follows on near the end of the list.

Before you get totally confused and end up at a memorial looking for your great uncle take a look at the list, it may help shed a smattering of light on the subject.

Oh! before I forget, there is also within the Regimental order an order for the Commonwealth Forces – have fun !!

The Order of Regiments can be found by clicking here

Margaret – Maggie, Peggie or Daisy ?

The previous blog was about naming traditions, so I thought I would follow on with nicknames.

My aunty was called Dolly or Do-do, but it was not until I was nearly a teenager that I found out she was really called Frances – I still can’t work out why she was called Dolly. She was always a Dolly but to me she was aunty Do-do and very much loved.

So, why an I putting pen to paper or fingers to keyboard?  Well, to suggest a few other names that Margaret or Pauline or Caroline might have been known by and therefore found on documents, census etc.

Imagine, it is the night of the census in 1871 (UK) and the enumerator comes to your home – it’s a good job he came and did the writing as you can only ‘make your mark’.  He enters your house, your husband is out and there is you with your children and your grandchild.  Mr Jones, the enumerator, asks who lives here.  You say there is your husband Jack.  You come next as the wife, so you say Jane.  Your children are next, John, George, Rosie and ‘our Aggie’ and ‘little Isa’.

You answered the enumerator, he did his paperwork and off he went next door.  But who really lived in your house?

Here is where it gets tricky!  The husband Jack, was really John – Jack being a familiar for John in certain areas. Jane  and George are easy, but Rosie is Roseanna, ‘Our Aggie’ is really Agnes and ‘Little Isa’ is Isaiah – confused yet?

When searching for your family in the census and documents remember, not everyone used the name they were Registered with, or Christened/Baptised with.

Many years ago I put my Riach line on hold as I had a choice of fathers for one family – the dates were a year out, not too disasterous, the place was the same but the names were Patrick and Peter, until some kind person informed me that Patrick and Peter were one in the same, just like Jack and John – easy when you know!

To have a look at some name variations and nicknames  click here
(This link also includes the English Naming Traditions)

Naming Traditions or Following in Families Footsteps

In my research both North and South of the border I have found two naming traditions and both slightly different – the Scottish tradition being the stronger.

My Riach family were a follower of this tradition and certainly did follow in the ‘naming traditions’  into quite modern times.

If you are John and your father was John and guess what ? So was your grandfather and greatgrandfather, please tell me how you are supposed to know which John married who.  As a result of this tradition, in my family tree I have over 40 John’s born within a 10 year period with John being the father.  The majority of these John’s are descendants of a John.

So, you know that a Janet Grant for example, married a John Riach,  son of John but which John Riach.  I know a place is also a good help when trying to eliminate the wheat from the chaf but when the family are in such a close proximity to the other Riach lot – all related, you tend, well I tend to have a lot of John Riach’s with either no wife attached or a lot of notes saying ‘possible wife’.

In many cases a certificate is not always going to help as the fathers name is only listed, and a baptismal/christening entry in the Parish Registers may help a little by giving the mothers name.  But here we go again, as a lot of the mothers names are the same.

I seem to remember saying to one of my ladies on a help desk ‘it’s easy when you know how’ – I lied, big time!!

But, saying all this and moaning at the number of people with the same name born within a very short time of each other – cousins, 2nd cousins and so on, sometimes it does help – I promise.

To have a look at the Scottish Naming Traditions click here

To look at the English Naming Traditions click here

Who Are You ?

Who are You ? How many times have you looked at a photograph and asked that question ? From my experience I can say 100’s if not 1,000’s.

I’m not a betting person but I will guarantee that you will have gathered, inherited or bought photographs of people, not always related but you have wondered…. Who Are You?

Donald Curtis, probably taken in Africa – the Curtis family new the Riach people from Urquhart and Lhanbryde, Moray.

My mum for instance, she served in the ATS during WW2, being posted to Nottingham and Burntisland just across the Firth of Forth from Edinburgh.  During her time in the ATS she collected lots of photographs of young men and women all serving their King & Country.  These wonderful pictures showing happy times during an unhappy period in our history are not only part of my family history but are important socially aswell.

These photographs, all in wonderful black and white, either have no information or simply ‘love Willie’ or ‘regards Joan’. But, who is Willie and who is Joan – mum knew who they were, where the photo was taken and when, so why would she bother to write names, places and dates on her ‘memory’ photograph?

So, what to do with all these photographs of her time in the ATS, her youth in the Urquhart area of Morayshire and her work as a housekeeper to Miss Kynoch in Fochabers, plus photographs of a friends son who was now married, had a son and lived somewhere in Africa, possibly South Africa.

A Gallery, a big gallery, that was the idea, with images scanned and questions posed on each picture.  Then I was given access to a local historians collection of photographs –  two very large shoe boxes to be precise, full of thick cards and some of the backs, beautifully decorated, were more interesting that the actual photograph on the front.  Some of these photographs had names and dates on the reverse.  The photographers studios were worldwide.

How to gather all these photographs in one place that seemed to make sense and make it easy for visitors to search and peruse.  I decided to divide in to areas i.e. Bradford, Leeds, Canada, Morayshire etc.

To view this collection of Who Are You’s visit WhoAreYou and enjoy !

Pope and Pearsons, Altofts

Did your family come from Altofts in the West Riding of Yorkshire?

Well, if they did, there is a good chance that they could have attended Pope & Pearsons, West Riding Colliery School.

A few years ago, I was offered the transcriptions done by Eve Kubiak for my website, Wakefield Family History Sharing – well, would you have said NO !  Didn’t think you would.

Eve spent many hours in the local archives taking the names down in longhand and then adding them to a computer programme – when you visit the pages you will see what a task that was for one person.  The entries start in 1875 and continue up to 1914.  The earlier entries are two or three years to a section when in 1893 they are in  individual years.

The information includes for each entry :- ID no. ; Date of admission or re-admission ; Surname followed by Christian name ; Date of birth ; Fathers of Mothers Name ; Address, From where and finally but not always having an entry is the Date of Leaving.  In later years there is a Remarks section with some of the entries being very informative.

For example in the 1877 – 79 section we have Mary Em Shepherd entering on 10 Dec 1877.  She was born on 29 Jan 1870, the daughter of Joseph of 1 Pit Row and was from the infant school.

Or, we have Beatrice Goldsburg born on 25 Jul 1889 who entered school from the Hunslet Board School.  She was the daughter of William of Railway Houses and she enter school on 2 May 1898.  The remarks say that she left on 10 Oct 1902 as she was Wanted at Home ! Her younger brother and sister left school in 1909 and 1906.

The same year, 1898, we have George Buxton, born 18 June 1889. the son of William of 9 Co-operative Terrace who came from the infants school, left on 1 Nov 1900 to go to The Grammar School.

The year of 1902 sees Sarah Thompson born 31 Oct 1891, the daughter of Sarah of 69 Pope Street.  She was admitted to school on 1 July 1902 – she was re-admitted as she had been in Knottingly but on 23 Dec 1904 she was taken out of school due to illness on Doctor’s Orders.

In 1904 the children of William Shaw of the Canal Boat Eardsly of Leeds were attending school, previously been attending Green Lane Pro (?) School.  The family entered on 13 March 1906 and left of 26 March 1906 as they returned to the Knottingley Canal.

If your family are from the area, you will surely find these lists fascinating, especially as you will know the names of families from your research – they could be neighbours, employers or relatives.  On the other hand, with no family connections to Altofts, I am sure you will still find the entries just as interesting.

The school entries for Pope & Pearson, West Riding School can be found here.

Wakefield’s Dambuster

Billy Hatton – the Wakefield Dambuster – how many of you knew we had a dambuster in our midst?

William Hatton was born in Wakefield on 24 March 1920, the son of George and Florence nee Lee.  The couple marrying in the Autumn iof 1911.

Billy attended the Holy Trinity School and later Thornes House, joining the RAFVR in 1940. He served as 1013557 and  rose to the rank of Sergeant.  Billy became a member of 617 Sqdn on 25 March 1943, as a flight engineer. His plane crashed into the sea 8 miles of Cromer and is remembered on the Runnymede Memorial.

The Runnymede Memorial, cared for by the CWGC commemorates over 20,000 airmen who were lost in the Second World War during operations from bases in the U K and North and Western Europe, and who have no known graves. They served in Bomber, Fighter, Coastal, Transport, Flying Training and Maintenance Commands, and came from all parts of the Commonwealth. Some were from countries in continental Europe which had been overrun but whose airmen continued to fight within the ranks of the RAF.

During the month of May 1940, Billy was the Bestman at my cousins wedding – Albert Edward Binns and his wife, Evelyn Pickard at Flanshaw Congregational Chapel

Billy’s father George served in the RN in WW1, living at 8 Ingwell Street, Wakefield – just off one of the main thoroughfares in and out of the City.

So, like Nelly Spindler, you could say that they are ‘forgotten hero’s’ in their home town!

Photographs supplied by D Ross nee Binns

Crimean Casualty Rolls 1854 – 1856

‘Into the valley of death rode the 600’

Similar to the previous post but this time the Casualty Rolls of the Crimean War of 1854 – 56, mainly extracted from the London Gazette – these extracts are mainly pass on details and their accuracy is questionable.

Saying that, the information contained within the transcription is similar to the previous posts with serial no., name, regiment etc.,

Picture by Roger Fenton –
The Valley of Death – the road littered with cannonballs

The Crimean War was the first war to be photographed – Roger Fenton born in Crimble Hall, Heap, Lancashire in 1819 was the son of a banker and the grandson of a wealthy cotton manuracturer.  He went to UCL and attained a 1st Class honours degree.  He had an interest in the new art form – photography and it was this that he followed the war to Crimea on an assignment for Thomas Agnew.  Roger and his assistant, Marcus Sparling, took over 350 usable large format negatives.

The casualty Rolls for the Crimean War can be found here

The names of Officers and Troopers who took part in the Charge of the Light Brigade on October 25th 1854 are here

South African Campaign of 1877-79

Casualty Rolls of the South African Campaign of 1877 – 79 (The Zulu Wars)

This Casualty Roll is not as easy to read as the previous blog entry but is still informative, especially if a member of your family served in the Zulu Wars.

If you have ever watched Zulu or Zulu Dawn, as I have many times – you can’t beat a good film, can you ? You will know of places such as Isandhlwana and Rorke’s Drift, but you may not know where they are.

It was at Rorke’s Drift where 150 soldiers defended a supply station against thousands of Zulu warriors and 11 of those very brave soldiers were awarded Britain’s most highest military decoration – The Victoria Cross, awarded for valour ‘in the face of the enemy’.

The information contained within the Roll is :- Army number (if applicable – Officers have no number) ; Rank ; Name ; Regiment ; Action i.e. KIA, Wounded, followed by place and date.

You may be familiar with such names as – 1373 Private Alfred Henry Hook, 2nd Btn 24th Foot, wounded at Rorke’s Drift on 23 January 1879, or 1362 Private Frederick Hitch, also from the 24th Foot, he was also wounded on 23 Janaury at Rorke’s Drift or even, 623 Sergeant Robert Maxfield again of the 24th Foot and KIA on 23 January.

The Casualty Rolls for the Zulu Wars can be found here

Afghan Campaign 1878-1880

The cd, Soldiers who died in The Great War is a good source for finding a soldier who was KIA or DoW in WW1.  Recently its counterpart for WW2 was also published  also on cd.  Both of these fantastic resources are now on pay per view sites and compliment the entries on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission with giving places of enlistment and cause of death i.e. Killed in Action or Died of Wounds.

But what do you do if your family member died in other conflicts.

I was recently sent a link to a very good site for the Afghan Campaign 1878-1880.  The information on the site gives the following information :-

Service number, rank, surname and christian name, regiment, how died or severity of wounds, place, date and remarks.  It is the remarks that are interesting.

For example, Captain Seymour Dun Barrow of the 10th Bengal Lancers was severely wounded at Patkao Shana on 1 July 1880, the remarks saying ‘ Incision to right forearm and left hand in a personal encounter with a nephew of Sultan Mahomed’.

Another entry for Lance Sergeant, 1583, William Cameron, 72nd Foot (Duke of Albany’s Own Highlanders, KIA at Kandahar on 1st September 1880, the remarks state ‘Gunshot abdomen. ‘A grand specimen of a Highland soldier’.

Major John Cook, 5th Gurkha Regiment, Danger Wound, at Kabul on 12 December 1879, the remarks go on to say ‘Gunshot left leg. Awarded V.C. for Peiwar Kotal, 02 December 1878. Died of Wounds 19 December  1878’.

Or, 514 Colour Sergeant  Ge Jacobs, 72nd Foot (Duke of Albany’s Own Highlanders), severely wounded at Kandahar on 1st September 1880.  He was awarded the DCM for Kabul, got a gunshot in the groin and was awarded bar to DCM.

Or, Private Jonathan Longworth, 32B/104, 1st Bn 12th Foot who was severely wounded at Besud on 19th May 1880.  He had a very deep knife wound, back of left shoulder with deep muscles severed.  He was awarded the DCM.

The detail about each soldier is concise but very informative and well worth a visit just to see what has been put in the remarks column, as there are a couple of V.C’s mentioned.

The information can be found here

Military Abbreviations

We know what AWOL and POW is but have you ever come across A.P.or the B.W.I, or heard mention of D.B., or  E.R.A. , P.U.O. or even S.I.W?     Probably not!

We all abbreviate in some way and depending where you work or which hobby you pursue, there will be a set of abbreviations that all within those fields will know and feel comfortable using.  For example you are a lover of sport, the NVA will immediately become the National Volleyball Association, but belong to an association connected with the brave men who fought within the Normandy conflict in WW2 and NVA will mean The Normandy Veterans Association. The same few letters but within different groups mean totally different things.

As the heading says, we are talking about Military Abbreviations, so many to consider that you could never remember the more obscure ones. The military know the abbreviations, they use them every day but it is us that follow in our soldiers footsteps that are left wondering what regiment great uncle Fred served in and what he did during his service.

Many more military records are being placed on free, pay per view and subscription websites that it would be handy and ease the curiosity complex that all family historians seem to have to have a list of abbreviations.

Give a family historian something i.e. an abbreviation,  half a story or tell them that you would rather not say and woop! – curiosity mode pops up within seconds and won’t rest until there is a good answer with evidence to support the findings.

Where to go if you find P.U.O. or E.R.A. on a record, headstone of website………

look no further than here!